Name: Cole Kamen-Green
Occupation: Composer, songwriter, producer, trumpet player, electronic musician

Nationality: American
Current Release: Cole Kamen-Green is one half of duo mmeadows with Kristin Slipp. Their full-length debut Light Moves Around You is out now. For physical copies and merchandise, click here. Find our interview with Kristin about their songwriting process in our mmeadows interview.
This interview deals with Cole's work as a session musician for artists as diverse as Lorde (her Solar Power album), Taylor Swift (among others her re-recordings of her early albums), and Beyoncé (4).

If you enjoyed this interview with Cole Kamen-Green and would like to find out more about his music, visit him on Instagram, and twitter. For more information about mmeadows, check out their official homepage.



Many artists feel both a desire to write and perform their own music and to take a spot in the limelight. Interestingly, many producers and session musicians prefer to stay in the background. You know both situations – what are their respective benefits from a creative and personal point of view?

The more confident I become as a musician, the better I am as both a leader, and collaborator. As a leader, being able communicate your needs and vision in a clear, open way is necessary to serve the music. It has taken many years for me to take the wheel with my own music. To have the belief that what I make is good and worth being out there in the world. Thank you therapy.

This same self belief makes it easier, more fun, and ultimately musically better to collaborate. Listening to others' direction (be it via explicit verbal communication or via how they are playing in the room with me) with openness is key. If I harbor any negative feelings about myself (I can’t do this / not able to do this) or the other person, it’ll be heard and felt in the music.

Music can be deceptive, but it doesn’t lie. It’ll tell my truth whether I want to or not.

There is a romantic ideal of a band as a bond of brothers or sisters, with the implicit assumption that this bond furthers better music than any constellation of even the most virtuoso session musicians. What's your take on that?

That is a romantic idea! And sometimes this is the case. But in no way do I feel it to be a rule.

The music has to be loved by everyone who is creating it in order for the music to be its best. It can be good even if not everyone is fully invested. But it won’t reach it full potential unless every member really loves what is happening musically.

Can there be a band feeling even if none of the musicians have played with each other before?

Absolutely! If the listening and chemistry is there, things can click. Maybe it comes from having written a song or improvising fluidly together. The next steps just involves making more sounds together!

How does a group of musicians grow together quickly?

The speed at which growth happens can’t really be anticipated. In either case, slow or fast growth, the time and focus has to be put in.

Sometimes, I'd assume, your parts are not particularly challenging in a technical sense. What is it that you want to bring to a song – your personal mark, as it were?

Sound and feel are the most personal things I     can offer. Be it technical or simple, I will always try to impart these two things into whatever I am doing.

If something is really challenging technically, it might just take a bit more time to internalize it so I can then give it back with my sound and feel.

After the song is done, do you feel a sense of co-ownership with  the music that is at least similar to that of having released your own song?

Sometimes. I think it depends on how good I feel about what I did. I always try to enjoy what was created.

But, sometimes it doesn’t work out like that, and you still have to turn something in. In those cases I may feel less of a sense of co-ownership.

Let's talk about Lorde's "Solar Power". To me, the album as a whole was massively underrated in terms of its artistic credit. In fact, it is the most listened to album in my collection from the past few years, so I know your part by heart!



Were there any discussions prior to the recording with Jack Antonoff or Evan Smith about the larger picture of the album?

I’m flattered to hear that!

This was my first session with Jack. To be honest when he texted me he didn’t even tell me who it was for. It was the day of the recording session (not an uncommon occurrence), and he asked if I could lay down some brass for something he was working on. It wasn’t until I was in the room with Laura Sisk (Jack’s wonderful engineer), Jack and Ella that I knew what I was going to play. It all happened on the spot in the room.

I remember Ella asking me to make some real guttural sounds and then demonstrated what she was hearing by basically turning into an amazing rabid animal. Jack and Ella had to split for SNL rehearsal, but Laura and I stayed in the studio for a few more hours laying down all sorts of fun stuff.

The larger picture may have been discussed, but I don’t think it played a role in detraining the parts I wrote or recorded.

Evan Smith engineered this track. He is a reed player himself – does it help if the producer knows about the instrument you're playing?

I love Evan. He’s really a gem human. He must have engineered his parts, but I think Laura recorded the rest of the instruments.

If a producer knows about the instruments they are working with, it usually is a sign that they also know / can hear their vision with clarity. That clarity is very helpful. I’ve spent hours in the studio where communication is all wonky because certain syntax, or knowledge of physical / technical capability is not there. However, this confusion can lead to beautiful experiments and accidents.

I also play some esoteric instruments so I don’t expect people to know what is going on with what or how I am making sounds. I just hope that they have some idea of a direction and a good amount of trust.

How many takes were there? Is there something like a typical number in this regard?

I can’t remember how many takes there were. There was a lot of stuff that was recorded that never made it. There isn’t a typical number in regards to the stuff I do.

The song “Solar Power” also features quite lovely background vocals by Clair Cottrill and Phoebe Bridgers. Are you in any way present when the other musicians lay down their tracks?

I was not in the room with Clair or Phoebe. That would have been fun though! Sometimes I am in the room with other musicians. I always prefer that!

“Babe (Taylor's Version)” is another big tune you worked on.



Taylor Swift is arguably the biggest pop star of the planet. How does one get to play on one of her albums?

It was another Jack Antonoff connection. Ever since I did that Lorde session he’s been using me for brass stuff. I’m very grateful and lucky that we are in each others orbits.

Probably the part about playing music my whole life has something to do with it too!

When you're part of such a big production, who will be your main contact person?

Depends, but usually the producer(s) and the engineer. Sometimes the primary artist.

These arrangements are interesting, as Swift had already recorded them. When it comes to such a job, do you prepare by listening to the originals as well? How does this process inform your performance?

In this case no.

I was sent a very stripped down version of the recording and had me lay down my parts on that. Then the flew in the rest of the arrangement after I had recorded my part.

I didn’t listen to the original. I wanted to stay in the present with what they were giving me.

Which studio did you record your parts in? How would you describe the vibe of such a session?

I recorded in my home studio for this one. So the vibe was pretty great!

I’ve done a bunch of stuff for Jack at Electric Lady, which has an incredible vibe. Most importantly the vibe is dictated by the people in the room (hopefully real nice, friendly, funny, open), the warmth of the studio (actual temperature and also how it looks), and the snack selection.

The credits also mention you in the role of engineer – what did you contribute in this regard?

Recording at home = I do all the technical stuff  + musical stuffs = Cole as engineer.

With regards to your involvement for Beyoncé's 4, Shea Taylor arranged the horn parts for these tracks.



Who arranged the trumpet parts – and from whom and how long in advance do you usually get these?

Shea was great to work with. He did a bunch of writing and arranging of parts, but we (Superpower Horns) also did a loooot of writing and arranging.

Every single part was written and arranged in the studio while Beyonce was there. No pressure.

Beyonce albums, I would assume, have a stronger electronic texture than the other two productions mentioned here. Does that matter to you for your work?

Actually I think there was a lot of non electronic elements that were then processed to give them an electronic feel. It really does not matter to me as long as the music is good.

Some of the tracks feature different combos. When you're playing in the studio, how do you keep the impression that you're actually playing for the same album? Does that sense of continuity matter?

In this case we were in the studio all summer. The sense of continuity came from spending so much time working together and finding a fluid work flow. We weren’t necessarily trying to maintain continuity, it just happened naturally.

The funk of some of these tracks is undeniable. Does it sometimes make you sad that the interaction with these other great musicians ends after the project, rather than continuing into a tour or another session?

We did want to continue the funk! Fortunately, I continue to play with members of that horn section (Nick Videen, Drew Sayers, Alex Asher, Josiah Woodson), and likely will for the rest of my life.

As for the other musicians on that recording, I imagine there will be a time when we will make sounds together. I was mainly just happy to have been part of that recording.

After getting over the initial shock of Beyoncé being in the room with us, it felt very easy, fun, and productive. Like working with a fellow BAADDD ASSSS musician. One who most likely we’d never see again after that summer, which turned out to be not true!