Name: Twinsleep
Members: John Hayes, Maxy Dutcher
Interviewee: Maxy Dutcher
Nationality: American
Current release: Twinsleep's self-titled debut album is out via Nettwerk.

If you enjoyed this Twinsleep interview and would like to stay up to date with the duo and their music, visit the band on Instagram. Also, head over to our interview with John Hayes for his views on the same questions.



When I listen to music, I see shapes, objects and colours. What happens in your body when you’re listening? Do you listen with your eyes open or closed?

I tend to have two distinct listening modes. Most of the time I’m listening to music, it’s from a purely emotional mindset. I don’t have synesthesia or any physical reaction to sounds, but I’ll inherently place value on a track or sound depending on how emotionally evocative it is to me.

The other listening mode is more technical and objective. I try to only turn this part of my brain on when I’m making technical assessments about a mix or a project I’m working on. When I’m in this mode, I’ll often close my eyes to listen with my ears and not get too distracted by what’s happening on my computer screen.

When I’m listening for pleasure, my eyes are usually open and I can experience the world with my own private soundtrack. It’s lovely!

What were your very first steps in music like - and how do you rate gains made through experience versus the naiveté of those first steps?

My first steps in music were very slow. I started on guitar and gradually moved towards drums and then to piano and keyboards. Recording and arranging music came after that. I’ve always been self taught which can be rewarding but also quite tedious.

Naiveté in music making is often the most exciting and fruitful position to be in. Nothing is more inspiring than when you’re out of your comfort zone and discover something completely new to build upon. I think going into a project naive for the writing process is best, and then pulling from past experiences and technical knowledge when you reach a point in the project when it’s necessary to move things forward. I’d say a healthy balance is key.

According to scientific studies, we make our deepest and most incisive musical experiences between the ages of 13-16. What did music meant to you at that age and what’s changed since then?

Most of the music I was into at that age was pretty angsty and sonically aggressive (Heavy drums, distorted guitars, etc) I identified with those sounds at that age because the music reflected what I was feeling at the time. I felt a certain comfort in that world.

As I’ve gotten older, I can still appreciate heavier music but a lot of my sensibilities have softened and I’m generally more attracted to rounder tones sonically.

Over the course of your development, what have been your most important instruments and tools and how have they shaped your perspective on music? What, would you say, are the key ideas behind your approach to music and what motivates you to create?

My computer has always been the most important tool in music creation for me.

Early on I realized that it’s an incredible song writing tool more than any “real” instrument that I had laying around. Instead of fleshing out a song on a particular instrument and then taking the idea to record, I typically use my DAW as a canvas to quickly throw ideas down and build a world around a simple theme or idea.

I love how easy it is to audition sounds or arrangements and find it creatively liberating to work reactively in this way. I can throw a bunch of ideas and improvisations down and then sift through them later as a sound curator.

Paul Simon said “the way that I listen to my own records is not for the chords or the lyrics - my first impression is of the overall sound.” What’s your own take on that and how would you define your personal sound?

This taps into that “objective listening mode” I spoke about earlier.

The further I’m away from a finished project, the easier it is to hear it as a whole instead of all these hundreds (or thousands) of micro-decisions I made during the creation process. Usually by the end of a project I'm sick of hearing it because I've listened intently and critically for so long. It’s quite lovely to listen back on a track when I’ve had time to reset my brain.

My personal sound varies quite a lot. I sometimes wish I had a more singular vision and aesthetic, but truly enjoy exploring different genres and sounds. I think a common thread in my music combines ethereal sounds with more organic real-world sounds.

I often try to use contrasting elements for a deeper image of what I’m working on.

Sound, song, and rhythm are all around us, from animal noises to the waves of the ocean. What, if any, are some of the most moving experiences you’ve had with these non-human-made sounds? In how far would you describe them as “musical”?

I live in a wilderness area in Montana so it’s quite inspiring to just wander around and listen to the forest. It breathes and shifts like one big organic symphony. I’ll often sample these sounds to weave in or layer under drums in my tracks.

And sometimes I’ll use field recordings in an ambient piece to give a grounded sense of space. Whenever I’m feeling uninspired, I’ll just walk out my door and take a stroll into nature.

From very deep/high/loud/quiet sounds to very long/short/simple/complex compositions - are there extremes in music you feel drawn to and what response do they elicit?

It usually depends on the mood I’m in at the time of listening. I’ll often seek out quiet and subdued music if I’m trying to wake up in the morning or wind down after a long day. If I’m in a perky mood, I’ll gravitate towards beat driven, exciting genres to accompany that energetic feeling.

In a general sense, I’m attracted to music with lots of dynamic range (or at least emotional range.) I like when shifts happen that are unexpected and keep me on my toes while I’m listening.

From symphonies and traditional verse/chorus-songs to linear techno tracks and free jazz, there are myriads ways to structure a piece of music. Which approaches work best for you – and why?

I appreciate a good verse / chorus structure if a track has vocals or calls for it. There’s something innately satisfying hearing the human voice repeat lyrics or themes in a chorus. It almost elicits a primal reaction from the listener to sing along.

If I’m working on an ambient piece, the process is usually stream-of-consciousness based. This can often look somewhat formless. When I’m working on a track with more of a structure, I’ll take a single idea and build it up / break it down throughout the song.

Adding pieces and taking them away brings the structure instead of chord progression changes.

Could you describe your creative process on the basis of one of your pieces, live performances or albums that’s particularly dear to you, please?

I have a new ambient project / album coming out with my friend John Hayes under the moniker Twinsleep. This album was really enjoyable to make!

We exchanged simple ideas and then slowed parts down to create drone textures. Then we’d wrap the main elements around them. John used an antique pump organ to write these hauntingly beautiful pieces. This formed the foundation for many tracks on the record.

I have an old sampler called a Yamaha VSS-30. I’d often resample elements that he sent me to create lofi textures on the record. And sometimes I’d sing into the sampler with a very slow envelope and looper with lots of delay and reverb. This makes a sort of haunting lofi choir tone that's used frequently throughout the album.

Sometimes, science and art converge in unexpected ways. Do you conduct “experiments” or make use of scientific insights when you’re making music?

I’ll absolutely conduct experiments in my writing process. I wouldn’t say I necessarily approach it from a scientific perspective though. Usually it’s intuition or emotion based. Sometimes I’ll misuse a plugin or piece of hardware unconventionally. This can often spawn something unusual and unexpected.

These experiments get me outside of my typical production habits. The key idea is to break free, and stumble onto something interesting by accident.

How does the way you make music reflect the way you live your life? Can we learn lessons about life by understanding music on a deeper level?

I’ve made a lot of sacrifices in my life so that I can live a creative existence. I’ve structured my life very simply so that I can make things if I feel inspired to create. Sometimes it’s music and sometimes it’s photography or video projects.

For me, it's difficult to separate art from life. The two influence each other in a very intimate way. Sometimes I don’t feel creative at all and I've learned to make peace with that. If I’m in a creative rut, I’ll just try to enjoy life and wait to be inspired.

Do you feel as though writing or performing a piece of music is inherently different from something like making a great cup of coffee? What do you express through music that you couldn’t or wouldn’t in more mundane tasks?

For me it’s different. When I'm doing mundane tasks, I try to shut off the creative side of my brain.

It can be exhausting to put the same amount of effort into chores as I would music, so I try to save that creative energy for the studio.

Every time I listen to “Albedo 0.39” by Vangelis, I choke up. But the lyrics are made up of nothing but numbers and values. Do you, too, have a song or piece of music that affects you in a way that you can't explain?

There’s a live performance of Bon Iver performing an acapella version of “Heavenly Father” at the Sydney Opera House.



The whole performance is amazing but one section in particular gives me chills everytime. It’s a moment when Justin Vernon lets out a primal yell that cuts to my core. It feels authentic and you can tell he’s so present in the moment and lost in the music.

Everyone in the vocal ensemble is interlocked and tuned in to each other. Truly beautiful.

If you could make a wish for the future – what are developments in music you would like to see and hear?

I feel so fortunate just to exist in 2023. The possibilities in music technology feel limitless and the barriers to entry are relatively low. I love how easy it is these days to explore and find niche artists and communities.

It’s difficult to say what I'm excited for. Mostly I'm just really happy to be along for the ride and see how things shake out.