Name: The 3 Clubmen
Members: Jen Olive, Stu Rowe, Andy Partridge
Interviewee: Jen Olive
Nationality: British  
Occupation: Singer, songwriter, guitarist, video artist
Current release: The 3 Clubmen's self-titled debut EP is out via Lighterthief / Burning Shed.

[Read our Stu Rowe interview]

If you enjoyed this Jen Olive interview and would like to keep up to date with her music as part of The 3 Clubmen, visit the band on Instagram, and Facebook. Jen also has her own personal website.



Where does the impulse to create something come from for you? What role do often-quoted sources of inspiration like dreams, other forms of art, personal relationships, politics etc play?

I think it’s chaos … and just people and the way we’re just all chaos machines. I seem wired by it. I mean the stories of people’s lives are just nuts most of the time. It’s endlessly interesting … and astonishing … and terrifying. Then the brain as a machine … Jesus there’s so much to it and you can never know it all.

The only real place of solace in life is art. Music, film, etc. And music is the art I can do pretty well, or not … but, I think it’s that. I think the impulse comes from a need for solace … and joy. The kind with no bad consequence.

There’s no heartbreak in making music. No matter the outcome. The process is a zero-negativity proposition.
 
For you to get started, do there need to be concrete ideas – or what some have called a 'visualisation' of the finished work? What does the balance between planning and chance look like for you?

I just need some kind of music to get at. A riff. A few bars of anything … could be a guitar line, a rhythm … doesn’t matter … just some sounds as a starting point. There’s never really a plan starting out … I’m terrible at plans … but as the thing starts to happen, visuals can come into play. It turns into a little film in my head and the music starts to conform to the aesthetic.

The Breaks was really like that. There’s a song on there called “Death of Me” which really set a tone. It’s a whole movie scene. And then the album became this story …

Is there a preparation phase for your process? Do you require your tools to be laid out in a particular way, for example, do you need to do 'research' or create 'early versions'?

My studio is an insane mess all the time. Crumbs in the keyboard. Cords everywhere … coffee cups. There’s no specific way anything needs to be. I just go into the studio and start. I don’t have a set time of day that’s better than any other. I’m just in and out. I demo things sometimes. It really just depends on how much of an investigation it is.

Some songs make you work for it - to crack the code - and some are just right there as soon as you start.
 
Do you have certain rituals to get you into the right mindset for creating? What role do certain foods or stimulants like coffee, lighting, scents, exercise or reading poetry play?

No, not specifically to be creative. I do have rituals for my day though.

I like to set a tone when I wake up. I have to have sun first thing in the morning - I get outside. I’m working on being a cold shower person … so there’s that.

I take eyeball breaks and the occasional white noise break. And if I don’t do things like that it’s harder to drive my day the way I want to.
 
What do you start with? How difficult is that first line of text, the first note?

I always start with music. The first part of anything is the hardest. The exploration before I land on something. But I love that ... it makes me feel like I’m actually doing something.

I play guitar in bed at night looking for stuff. I record it on my phone and then at some future point I’ll take it in the studio and see what’s there. Maybe there’s something I can work off of …
 
When do the lyrics enter the picture? Where do they come from? Do lyrics need to grow together with the music or can they emerge from a place of their own?

Lyrics are usually the last thing to happen. Once I have a chunk of music - enough for a verse or a chorus, I start by just riffing vocal sounds over the music looking for a melody … eventually something starts to sound like a line or two and then I build from there.

The syllables are so important. The way they hit each other and move into each other. I’ll replace a word if the syllables sound wrong. I don’t really care if it changes the meaning or whatever. Certain consonants banging into each other really bug me. It’s unpleasant. So I try to get that in order first and then see what words are forming.

Once in a while a whole, a fully formed line just pops out - that’s a bonus when that happens.
 
What makes lyrics good in your opinion? What are your own ambitions and challenges in this regard?

Some people are really connected to lyrics and really good at writing them. They’re real story-tellers or they’re really clever. Andy’s like that. I don’t consider myself that way. I’m not as connected to words. They don’t just show up for me. I have to dig for them. Mine them. I’m pretty decent at bouncing off of someone else, though.

When we did “Aviatrix” for The 3 Clubmen CD, Andy had written a first verse already, then the next part, which ultimately became the chorus, was left open for me - that came very easily because there was a theme already.

On my own, I could probably stand to get better at lyric-writing but I never really have anything I’m dying to say. I think that’s why I just dig around looking for single words here and there … I’m not as oriented to words as I am to music. Unless I’m talking and then there is no shortage of words. Weird.
 
Once you've started, how does the work gradually emerge?

It depends. When I did Warm Robot, it was one song at a time getting written, then mixed, while the next one was being written … it was a very linear process … and I saw it as a kind of conversation between me and Andy.

So those songs emerged much like a conversation does. Banter back and forth about whatever’s on the mind and the album really reflects that. The Breaks, with Stu, emerged more like a film or even a sculpture. A whole story started to appear within a few songs, so subsequent songs started naturally falling in line with that. It was an entirely different process and feeling. So yeah, it depends.
 


Many writers have claimed that as soon as they enter into the process, certain aspects of the narrative are out of their hands. Do you like to keep strict control over the process or is there a sense of following things where they lead?

Yeah, I think I’m such a control freak in the rest of my life that music or any creative project HAS to be a free zone. I just like to let things happen and see where they land. Warm Robot has a lot of that.

There are songs on that record that probably shouldn’t even be songs. Like “So Funny”. It’s got a suitcase as a bass drum and I don’t even know what the time signature is. And honestly, it’s been called unlistenable - or inaccessible. But who cares? It’s what happened and I love it.



In The 3 Clubmen it’s a very similar feeling - no one has control and we all have control. We don’t know what the narrative is until the end. I love that.

For me, control and creativity are archenemies. I get that many people have fully formed ideas and visions for their music and that’s probably a much cleaner way forward. But, I just can’t manage that. It’s lost on me. So, I’m actually very lucky that I’ve found not one, but two people who also enjoy operating in more of an improvisational way.
 
Often, while writing, new ideas and alternative roads will open themselves up, pulling and pushing the creator in a different direction. Does this happen to you, too, and how do you deal with it? What do you do with these ideas?

I want that! I don’t write whole songs all at once. I come up with pieces here and there and just start recording. I like writing in the studio because it offers that freedom. You can wind up anywhere.

I don’t really make plans for songs. They do what they do and then I go in and try to give what it’s asking. There’s usually some kind of implication when things are new and so that’s often the obvious way to go, but I’m always happy to follow an odd road down to somewhere if it sounds cool. You can always go back so there’s no harm in trying things.

I’m thinking of a song on Warm Robot called “Pieces” … I’d sent it to Andy and he added stuff I never would have thought of that made what could have been a possibly morose or moody-feeling song, suddenly jaunty. And it was awesome. It started off in one world and wound up in another that was even cooler.



So I don’t mind being misdirected, or maybe redirected is a better word … whether it’s my own mind or someone else’s. I enjoy going off the path.
 
There are many descriptions of the creative state. How would you describe it for you personally? Is there an element of spirituality to what you do?

Hmm … the creative state. Well, I was raised in music. Both of my parents were professional musicians. There are professional musicians - classical and jazz - on both sides of my family. It’s not really mysterious or spiritual in my world. It’s just everyday stuff. It’s the works of life. It’s a thing we all do in some capacity.

But you mentioned lyric writing and I’ll dig into that some more. There’s definitely an unconscious force in that. A mystery feeling or a story looking for an exit … That’s true. Suddenly you know what’s been on your mind … or more about how you’re seeing things lately.

But spiritual? No. I’m a pretty hectic atheist so it would be hard for me to see it that way.
 
Especially in the digital age, the writing and production process tends towards the infinite. What marks the end of the process? How do you finish a work?

Well, for both my current solo stuff and The 3 Clubmen, Stu Rowe has produced. And he gets a lot of leeway in my world. Dude is so creative and adds so much to the process. We go back and forth with ideas and sound. It’s finished when there’s nothing left to ponder or do or say.

Same with The 3 Clubmen. When Stu is passed out on the studio floor and has aged sufficiently, it’s over baby! Done!
 
Once a piece is finished, how important is it for you to let it lie and evaluate it later on? How much improvement and refinement do you personally allow until you're satisfied with a piece? What does this process look like in practise?

It’s a constant doing of that. Many times over.

It’s like the King Crimson lyric, “I carried it around with me for days and days … playing little games … like not looking at it for a whole day … and then looking at it … to see if I still like it …” That’s the whole process. Do something. Walk away. Do more. Walk away. Until there’s nothing left to do. Then let it go and move on.

It’s a tricky balance between “fixing” stuff and doing too much. You have to know your own capacities but you also have to push beyond them. It’s a skill to learn. It’s always been a necessity for me to have people to work with whose taste I really love and respect, but also whose character I can get with. And that’s a rough one. Cuz people can be real shit.

You get better as you go … hopefully.
 
What's your take on the role and importance of production, including mixing and mastering for you personally? How involved do you get in this?

Production really matters. The sound is the point. It’s like the set for a film. Or the cinematography. The production becomes another part of the songwriting. So, I have to be involved because I have ideas about what it should be - but I can’t do it on my own.

I’m not skilled enough, which means I don’t always think as broadly as I could. I need a brain or two in the room who know how to make it happen and who get my language in that regard.
 
After finishing a piece or album and releasing something into the world, there can be a sense of emptiness. Can you relate to this – and how do you return to the state of creativity after experiencing it?

I just wait. And I get into something else I love. I don’t think about it. There’s no need. I just need to recharge and that’s fine. I do sometimes trip when I feel it again and it’s totally different.

Like I was writing all this odd time signature stuff and suddenly I’m pulling out some Chuckwagon groove … lol. That can be jarring.
 
Creativity can reach many different corners of our lives. Do you personally feel as though writing a piece of music is inherently different from something like making a great cup of coffee? What do you express through music that you couldn't or wouldn't in more 'mundane' tasks?

I’m just more competent overall as a person with music. I’m an endless talker and explainer in real life. I info dump. I’m obsessed with the brain, which I’d bet is exhausting for people around me. I don’t connect all the time.

Music is the opposite for me. It’s easy and normal there. It can even feel boring or mundane in itself, which is a relief. I do get massive joy out of little things like a perfect cup of coffee. In fact, sometimes I’m excited to go to bed because I can’t wait to have that coffee in the morning.

But coffee is not a full context thing. Music is full context for me. It’s the most of me I can do at once without thinking about it. I agree tho that creativity is in everything, or can be, if you want to see it that way. And I like that a lot. I like arranging food a certain way on a certain color plate. I like that you can get to know a person by observing those little things. My car looks like my studio, it’s a minor tragedy for passengers …

But not everything in my world is a mess. It seems like I’m a slob with no rules but actually I have some hardcore rules for some things. We’re all so interesting like that. I think it’s interesting anyway.