Name: New Visionaries
Members: Phil Martin, Joel Sarakula
Nationality: Australian (Joel), Dutch (Phil)
Current release: New Visionaries's Roadmaps is out January 26th 2024 via Discos Buenos.
Recommendations: Phil: The Music Lesson by Victor Wooten. It will teach you everything about improvisation. And any live concert by Weather Report, best band ever, with such an incredible improvisation skills.
Joel: I’m currently reading Music And The Mind by Anthony Storr after recently reading his The Essential Jung.

If you enjoyed this interview with New Visionaries and would like to stay up to date with the band and their music, visit Phil Martin's Soundbetter profile and Joel Sarakula on Instagram.  
 


There are many potential models for collaboration, from live performances and jamming/producing in the same room together up to file sharing. Which of these do you prefer – and why?

Phil: together in a room works very well for us.

Of course we do some things remotely. But I think most of the important bits were done together in a room.

How did this particular collaboration come about?

Phil: We met in 2019 I believe. I was asked by a friend to join in on a small live session with Joel. I had never heard his music but was presently surprised by his songs.

We talked and I invited him to come over to the studio. There we started to work on some ideas for his album companionship and we’ve stayed in close contact ever since then.

Joel: Yep, that’s how we met. Then some time after that in June 2020 at the height of the pandemic, I was stuck in Holland and couldn’t return to the UK because of entry restrictions and quarantines. So I kind of invited myself to Phil’s studio in Dordrecht and we just started jamming on some fresh material.

Pretty soon we had some ideas for instrumental tunes that wouldn’t fit in other projects. That’s how the New Visionaries was born!

And the UK finally changed their entry rules a couple of weeks later and let me back in, so I’m not still wandering the streets of Dordrecht semi-homeless and looking for a jam session. Happy ending all around!

What did you know about each other before working together? Describe your creative partner in a few words, please.

Phil: Prior to our first jam we really didn’t know each other’s work. But we discovered we know a lot of the same people in the business. I like Joel's approach to music, specifically his songwriting skills, but also his ideas for arrangements and sounds. We love groove but harmonies are also very important.

Besides that he knows his way on many instruments. We both love vintage synths.

Joel: I listened to some of Tim’s records and could hear he was a great producer and drummer. Working with him I’ve found out he’s also a great and studied percussionist, engineer and knows his way around a lot of instruments actually.

What do you generally look for in a collaborator in general and what made you want to collaborate with each other specifically?

Phil: I like it when someone brings something to the table that I am not so good at. Joel is good with harmonies. I am good with grooves and engineering.

We lock in and work very well together, usually without much discussion. We listen to each others ideas.

Joel: Phil has a very calm and focused energy in the studio and everything flows at a good pace whenever we work together. He stops some of my more ridiculous ideas and flights of fancy!

He is a great drummer and percussionist and aside from laying down all the wild drum grooves on Roadmaps, he brings his heightened sense of rhythm to other instruments as well, often finding polyrhythms in guitar and keyboard lines that I would never have thought of.

Tell me a bit about your current instruments and tools, please. In which way do they support creative exchange and collaborations with others?

Phil: My studio is full of vintage instruments. I’ve got a grand piano, rhodes, wurlitzer, clavinet, organs, synths as well as a lot of drums, percussion and guitars. So we don’t use samples or loops. It’s all played on real instruments.

But we record with the latest DAW and use lots of plug ins. Digital recording is so easy and good nowadays. I don’t bother with tape anymore …

Before you started making music together, did you in any form exchange concrete ideas, goals, or strategies? Generally speaking, what are your preferences when it comes to planning vs spontaneity in a collaboration?

Phil: We had no plan and we still don’t have a plan. It started out as two musicians wanting to write and record new music. It was a good way of checking each other out.

I’ve collaborated more on Joel’s recent albums, that’s what came out if this too. And I do believe there is a good friendship and we will continue working together in the future. When ever we feel the need.

Joel: Yes, we will definitely continue working together. We’ve collaborated a lot on each other’s projects. Phil has drummed a lot on my two most recent albums and I did some writing and keys for his ‘Martin and Garp’ project.



Describe the process of working together, please. What was different from your expectations and what did the other add to the music?

Phil: We didn’t have any expectations, we just did it for fun.

We throw ideas at each other and most of the time we agree. And if not, we can take the track in another direction.

Is there a piece which shows the different aspects you each contributed to the process particularly clearly?

Phil: I think the harmonies are clearly Joel’s contribution and the percussion layers and groove are mine. We both have a good sense for melody I believe.

Joel: “Giallo Days” was a true collaboration which shows our different skills. Phil laid down the rhythms and the harmonies and melody were my contributions. We are both tinkerers and can get a bit obsessed too.

Tim changed the groove on the drums and that bass riff a couple of times and I tweaked that organ melody in the chorus a lot. But it resulted in a great track.

What tend to be the best collaborations in your opinion – those with artists you have a lot in common with or those where you have more differences? What happens when another musician take you outside of your comfort zone?

Phil: I haven’t worked much with people who are much different. It probably would not work for me.

But I make so many different kinds of music. I listen to progrock, indiepop, funk, 70/80 pop, funk, soul, african music, techno and other electronic music. So I think I can work on many levels with musicians and producers.

As a drummer I do a lot sessions from rock to funk to jazz to afro … I love good music, not only a few genres …

Decisions between creatives often work without words. How did this process work in this case?

Phil: We can talk a lot but not all about the music we are doing.

We can work without words. Music is our language.

What are your thoughts on the need for compromise vs standing by one's convictions? How did you resolve potential disagreements in this collaboration?

Phil: I don’t think we really did have any big disagreements about the songs.

We worked pretty quickly and often tried multiple options before settling on the one we both agreed on.

Was this collaboration fun – does it need to be?

Phil: Making music is about communication, if you can’t communicate through music there is no use for making it. If it wasn’t fun I would not do it. I am not in it for any other reason. This music will not make me rich, famous or anything. Enjoyment is the only reason for doing it, thank god …

But I think Joel is in it for the money? Are you Joel?

Joel: I’m definitely in it for the money.

Do you find that at the end of this collaboration, you changed certain parts of your process or your outlook on certain creative aspects?

Phil: I learned a lot from Joel. So that will influence me of course.

Besides that I never try to make the same album twice. So if we are going to make new music there must be another concept or starting point for me. Maybe we should write the next album with a band live in the studio? Or we use other instruments or a different recording process.

Joel: I’ve always wanted to make a spiritual jazz album! Phil’s style of tracking is a lot quicker than mine. So I probably waste less time on recording too many takes and comping now.

Collaborating with one's heroes can be a thrill or a cause for panic. Do you have any practical experience with this and what was it like?

Phil: I made a record with Dr Lonnie Smith and toured with him. That was one of the best musical moments of my life.

[Read our Lonnie Liston Smith interview]

I also made an album with Azymuth. All legends.

I am so blessed to have those experiences. And because we communicate via music, there’s a friendship right away. A respect that gives you so much confidence to do the best you can…Thank god I have had those experiences many times.