Name: 2fox
Members: Max Sinàl, Renell Shaw
Interviewee: Renell Shaw
Nationality: British
Occupation: Songwriter
Current Release: 2fox "So Long,“ featuring Liam Bailey and BB James is out via Soul Quest.
Recommendations:
Book: Sapiens - A brief history of humankind by Yuval Noah Harari.
Album: Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner by Black Uhuru

[Read our Max Sinàl interview]

If you enjoyed this Renell Shaw interview and would like to stay up to date with the music of 2fox, visit the duo on Instagram, twitter, and Facebook.



Where does the impulse to create something come from for you? What role do often-quoted sources of inspiration like dreams, other forms of art, personal relationships, politics etc play?
 
I’m a curious person, so I spend a lot of time searching for the right questions to ask myself. When I find an answer that reveals itself from a place of truth, the art that I create is my way of communicating what I’ve learnt.

I’m also connected to a community of diverse and interesting people, our conversations inspire new perspectives or reaffirm existing ones.

The song ‘Tomorrow’ came from a conversation during 2020 about the illusion of freedom versus the reality of freedom.
 


For you to get started, do there need to be concrete ideas – or what some have called a 'visualisation' of the finished work? What does the balance between planning and chance look like for you?

I don’t believe in chance. I believe that there are a lot of things in motion, at a level of understanding that is beyond our comprehension, and many of us struggle with accepting that.

I feel a similar way about my creative ideas, sometimes they’re amazing, sometimes I’ll have to work hard to find the vibe, and other times my ideas are laughably terrible. I’m limited to what I know, and I’m getting better at being ok with that.

The main thing for me, is to keep creating, and to learn from the creation process.

For example, ‘Bailar’ is my attempt at writing a song that draws from my love of Spanish music and culture.
 


Is there a preparation phase for your process? Do you require your tools to be laid out in a particular way, for example, do you need to do 'research' or create 'early versions'?

I like to have an understanding of what we are trying to achieve when I’m in a room with others. Even if something completely different emerges, it’s a nice starting place for me. Other times I just need to be alone, so that I can hear what the music is trying to tell me.

‘Keep your head up’ started in the room with quite a few creatives collaborating on it. We got the music together very quickly, but I couldn’t think of any lyrics that matched the vibe.



Once I got home, and listened by myself, I wrote the lyrics in about 20 minutes because I knew exactly what to say.

Do you have certain rituals to get you into the right mindset for creating? What role do certain foods or stimulants like coffee, lighting, scents, exercise or reading poetry play?

Creating is the ritual that gets me into the mindset for creating, it’s a self-charging practice.

I’ve tried other things to support a creative headspace, but the most effective method, for me, is to just shove an instrument in my hand and leave me alone.

What do you start with? And, to quote a question by the great Bruce Duffie: When you come up with a musical idea, have you created the idea or have you discovered the idea?

Definitely discovered the idea, creation is just the translation process.

When do the lyrics enter the picture? Where do they come from? Do lyrics need to grow together with the music or can they emerge from a place of their own?
 
I’ve always struggled with answering this question, maybe it’s because I’m a composer and a musician, as well as a songwriter that I’ve never seen lyrics as the only form of narrative or communication within music. So I only use lyrics when they’re needed.

‘Move’ expresses this idea very well, a lot is being said, but there are only eight words in the whole song.



What makes lyrics good in your opinion? What are your own ambitions and challenges in this regard?

In my opinion, lyrics that are simple to relate to, but have poetic depth, is a great sign of somebody who knows how to use a pen. My ambition is to find (or to create) a community who want both depth, and a dance floor.

I love the idea of somebody singing along to a chorus that they know, but the message may not click until they’re singing it amongst a crowd of others. There’s real power in moments like that, it can be life changing. My challenge is to not force that idea into existence, it’ll happen with consistency.

‘All Love’ and ‘Inner Drum’ are tiny cuts from that cloth.
 


Many writers have claimed that as soon as they enter into the process, certain aspects of the narrative are out of their hands. Do you like to keep strict control or is there a sense of following things where they lead you?

I follow things where they lead me, but I keep strict control when it is necessary.
 
Often, while writing, new ideas and alternative roads will open themselves up, pulling and pushing the creator in a different direction. Does this happen to you, too, and how do you deal with it? What do you do with these ideas?

Yes, this happens all the time, that’s why I think collaboration is important, it gives us time to listen.

2fox are instinctively collaborative, this makes it easy for me to take a back seat and listen when I can’t find clarity - I don’t mind being an audience member in my own band. If at the end, the song doesn’t feel like a 2fox record, we leave it. Both Max and I have to like the song, because we’re the ones who will have to perform it night after night.

The original version of 'Mi Casa’ has Max and I singing a completely different thing. The following day, we realised that it was a terrible idea, so we asked Nandi to come in to work with us on writing something new. It sounds much better now.



There are many descriptions of the creative state. How would you describe it for you personally? Is there an element of spirituality to what you do?

I come from a very creative culture. You can find creativity in everything from how my people talk, dress, cook and even argue, so it’s never really felt like a state.

When performing with people who are sensitive to the nuances of the energy on the stage, there’s definitely a heightened awareness of each other. That feels spiritual to me.

When you're in the studio to record a piece, how important is the actual performance and the moment of performing the song still in an age where so much can be “done and fixed in post?“

I have, and will always be a firm believer in the importance of story and message through music and other art forms.

I’m not too fussed about things being treated or “fixed in post”, as long as it’s done to support the story and the message. It’s 2023 lol.
 
Once a piece is finished, how important is it for you to let it lie and evaluate it later on? How much improvement and refinement do you personally allow until you're satisfied with a piece? What does this process look like in practise?

2fox, are two people with one vision, we compliment and support each other's strengths and weaknesses. Because of this, we are able to create a space where we can try whatever needs to be explored to get a record to the finish line.

We explored quite a few ideas and different singers before we were satisfied with ‘Bring It Home’.
 


Even recording a solo song is usually a collaborative process. Tell me about the importance of trust between the participants, personal relationships between musicians and engineers and the freedom to perform and try things – rather than gear, technique or “chops” - for creating a great song.

It’s a simple formula for me. Work with people you trust and that you are a fan of - that’s 80% of it.

The other 20% is about managing ego.
 
What's your take on the role and importance of production, including mixing and mastering for you personally? In terms of what they contribute to a song, what is the balance between the composition and the arrangement (performance)?

I haven’t tuned my ears to the finer details of mixing and mastering in the same way that I have with composition and arranging, but I respect the art form of mixing and mastering equally.

I normally sit back and let Max dive into the mixing space, and I only really step in if the mix is affecting the feel of something like a vocal harmony, or how the instruments are working with each other.
 
After finishing a piece or album and releasing something into the world, there can be a sense of emptiness. Can you relate to this – and how do you return to the state of creativity after experiencing it?

I can’t relate to this, I’m always doing something creative.

Sometimes I’ll take a break, but that’s because I want to chill.

Music is a language, but like any language, it can lead to misunderstandings. In which way has your own work – or perhaps the work of artists you like or admire - been misunderstood? How do you deal with this?

Language is limited, there will always be misunderstandings. But I feel that as long as Max and I understand what we are trying to say musically, when we listen back, we will feel like we’ve done the best job we can at communicating that.

Everything else is perspective.