Name: Thomas Morgan
Nationality: American
Occupation: Bassist, improviser

If you enjoyed this interview with Thomas Morgan and would like to know more about his music and current live dates, visit his official homepage.

Over the course of his career, Thomas Morgan has worked with a wide range of artists, including Tyshawn Sorey, Kresten Osgood, Jakob Bro, Bill Frisell, Paul Motian, Masabumi Kikuchi, John Abercrombie, Gerald Cleaver, Dan Weiss, and Timuçin Şahin.

[Read our Kresten Osgood interview]
[Read our Jakob Bro interview]
[Read our Gerald Cleaver interview]
[Read our Dan Weiss interview]
[Read our Timuçin Şahin interview]
 


When did you first start getting interested in musical improvisation?

I played cello in a youth orchestra and at some point, maybe around age 11 or 12, it felt more interesting to play songs I'd heard on the radio than the orchestral music or etudes. I'm sure I didn't remember those songs exactly and it blended into a bit of improvisation.

I was also writing songs with a friend and we did some improvising to come up with the melodies. But I really got interested in it at age 13 after hearing Todd Sickafoose play bass in the staff big band at music camp.

What made a big impression was the sound he got from the instrument and also the dynamic, spontaneous, and formative role that the bass played in the band.

Which artists, approaches, albums or performances involving prominent use of improvisation captured your imagination in the beginning?

Todd Sickafoose taught me a few lessons and the first transcription he assigned was Milt Hinton's bass line on "Housed from Edward" from the Branford Marsalis album Trio Jeepy.



Milt Hinton plays chorus after chorus of perfect bass lines -- clear, melodic, grounded, and inventive. Much if not all of what you need to learn to get started as a bass player is there. And you can hear him very well in the mix, which makes it great for study.

I also had a birthday coming up and my uncle and aunt asked at a record store for recommended albums to give a new jazz double bass player. They ended up with a Ray Brown Trio album and one by Charlie Haden's Quartet West. That was my first time hearing both of those bass players and I couldn't stop listening.



I was particularly attracted to Ray Brown's sound. Charlie Haden's playing made a big impact too, one that increased over the years

Focusing on improvisation can be an incisive transition. Aside from musical considerations, there can also be personal motivations for looking for alternatives. Was this the case for you, and if so, in which way?

I've always been uncomfortable with experiences where groups of people seem to lose their individuality and are supposed to go along with a prescribed collective feeling. High school rallies felt like the epitome of that.

Playing jazz bass gave me a way to be very much a part of a group while still having a personal identity.

What, would you say, are the key ideas behind your approach to improvisation? Do you see yourself as part of a tradition or historic lineage?

I'd say the main idea is to connect with people, to find common ground and then expand that and explore together.

Another idea is to look for balance; to imagine what could be added at any given moment to bring the music into balance. Tension / release and dynamic / static are a couple examples of the many dimensions.

I relate most strongly to the jazz tradition; that's had the biggest impact on me. But while playing I'm responding to the situation and not usually thinking about lineage.

What was your own learning curve / creative development like when it comes to improvisation - what were challenges and breakthroughs?

One challenge came after moving from California to New York, where there are much greater changes in humidity. I found that what I could play one day might be impossible the next day. In hindsight I see that that had always been the case, but it became much clearer that trying to force things was counterproductive. That helped me to let go of preconceptions and see where current conditions would lead.

Later I started touring and borrowing basses regularly, and it became even more important to be flexible and unassuming in order to adapt to different instruments and to learn as much as possible from each situation.

Tell me about your instrument and/or tools, please. How would you describe the relationship with it? What are its most important qualities and how do they influence the musical results and your own performance?

I'm still playing the bass I got at age 14.

It's German, probably from the mid 20th century. It wasn't an especially expensive one but it has improved from work done over the years, and what I like most about it is its expressive range. It's possible to get a singing quality from it, but it's also possible to get a sound that blends with other instruments in acoustic settings. Having those options must have been an influence, especially in the first eight years where I played that bass almost all of the time.

One thing that changed after moving to New York was that some work done on the bass made the upper register sound better; before that I hardly played up there all.

Can you talk about a work, event or performance in your career that's particularly dear to you? Why does it feel special to you? When, why and how did you start working on it, what were some of the motivations and ideas behind it?

One highlight (though it's hard to single something out) was a week playing duo with Bill Frisell at the Village Vanguard in March 2016. Two of the nights were recorded and released as Small Town in 2017 and Epistrophy in 2019.



We had played duo at the Vanguard the year before and Sarah Humphries from ECM had the idea to record it the next time. Playing duo feels particularly intimate because all the communication is direct and immediate. It feels like the guitar and bass become one instrument, which is especially exciting to be a part of when you're playing with Bill Frisell.

Among a variety of other music we played songs by Paul Motian, and it was Paul that had brought us together – and Petra Haden -- to record his last album, The Windmills of Your Mind (released in 2011).



How do you feel your sense of identity influences your collaborations? Do you feel as though you are able to express yourself more fully in solo mode or, conversely, through the interaction with other musicians? Are you “gaining” or “sacrificing” something in a collaboration?

It might be true that I can express myself more fully when playing solo. It gives me the largest possible dynamic range, for one thing, which is helpful for expression. It's something I'd like to do more.

But my instincts are more developed for playing with others -- that gives me a better sense of whether things are in balance and when a particular direction is productive. And there's magic in people working with curiosity and respect to create something together.

Most of the time I'd prefer not to think about a sense of identity, and just let that be flexible. But I'm sure it's always there, however unconsciously. It becomes more conscious when there's less room for individuality, but I'm not so drawn to those situations or often called upon to join them.

Derek Bailey defined improvising as the search for material which is endlessly transformable. Regardless of whether or not you agree with his perspective, what kind of materials have turned to be particularly transformable and stimulating for you?

That makes me wonder what kind of material is not transformable, and whether the context of his definition goes into that.

It won't be a surprising answer, but I do find that standards never run out of possibilities; you can abstract and remake them as much as you want. Some of the more abstracted examples that I've participated in are the way Steve Coleman superimposes "Donna Lee" onto his tune "9 to 5", which is in 15/8. (I'm not sure if he ever recorded that but it was something we played on gigs.)

A pretty different example is the multidirectional way (both rhythmically and harmonically) that Masabumi Kikuchi and Paul Motian played ballads like "Just a Gigolo" (on the album On Broadway, Vol. 5 by Paul Motian Trio 2000 + Two).



When you're improvising, does it actually feel like you're inventing something on the spot – or are you inventively re-arranging patterns from preparations, practise or previous performances?

It feels more like re-arranging and developing what's already there in each moment.

The source I'm most conscious of is what the other musicians are playing and what's in the composition. What I play in reaction to those also become material for further development. Everything I've listened to and experienced is a source too, though I'm usually less conscious of that while improvising.

To you, are there rules in improvisation? If so, what kind of rules are these?

I think that whatever rules one comes up with, there will always be something that breaks them and is artistically successful despite that or because of that.

Anything that could be called a rule could also be considered a point of reference to be hinted at, embraced, or subverted -- whichever seems productive at the moment. To me that feels more realistic and more fun than thinking of it as a rule.

There are human values that are important whether or not they produce better art (I think they usually do). I'd include things like awareness, connection, trust, respect, generosity, sincerity, and curiosity.

In a live situation, decisions between creatives often work without words. How does this process work – and how does it change your performance compared to a solo performance?

It's immediate feedback on how each thing I do affects the flow for the other people and for the whole. And what they do gives me ideas to help develop or complement.

There are many descriptions of the ideal state of mind for being creative. What is it like for you? In which way is it different between your solo work and collaborations?

I'd call the ideal state relaxed and aware, and with a feeling of camaraderie when playing with others.

How do you see the relationship between sound, space and performance and what are some of your strategies and approaches of working with them?

This is a more literal answer than the question is probably seeking, but I notice that being even a few inches closer to another musician on stage can quicken and deepen the connection, so I try to be as close as everyone is comfortable with.

In a way, improvisations remind us of the transitory nature of life. What, do you feel, can music and improvisation express and reveal about life and death?

There can be moments of sublimity in music that take you out of your normal way of going through life and give you a sense of wonder.

There's also music that sustains a balance between stasis and change and makes you feel more connected to something beyond your individual experience.