Part 2

There are many descriptions of the creative state. How would you describe it for you personally? Is there an element of spirituality to what you do?

Well … I don’t go to church. My parents used to go to church when I was a kid and would take the whole family along. I feel church is where people find community, time for personal reflection, search for the meaning of life, etc. That’s what I get out of playing music. I wouldn’t call it directly spiritual - but it’s what gives meaning to my life. Like a sense of purpose (outside of raising my son).

If life was just eat, work, pay bills, watch TV and sleep - I wouldn’t last long. If I don’t have a chance to crank up my amps and play loud music at least once a week … I will get depressed. It’s a release. It’s how I make sense of the world in a way. And when it’s really vibing … yeah I feel part of something bigger than just my day to day experiences.

When you're in the studio to record a piece, how important is the actual performance and the moment of performing the song still in an age where so much can be “done and fixed in post?“

It depends on the music. And my thoughts have recently changed. Not that long ago I would have said something like … “It’s 2020. The listening audience is attuned to music that’s basically perfectly in time - give the people what they want.”

However now, I feel like - fuck what the people want! They only want a certain thing because that’s what they are used to or comfortable with. And our music isn’t supposed to be comfortable. AND I definitely want it to sound a little different. I feel using a metronome and click track in the studio process is important as a frame of reference. But I no longer feel the need to edit for the sake of editing. If something is a touch off and jumps out and catches my attention, yeah, fix it. Studio time is expensive. If the feel of the take is good - let’s keep the take and make a small edit - or just let it be.

I feel Garrett and I exhaustively prepare for the studio and the music we create is ideally pushing our abilities and challenging for us to perform. And that’s where I hope music is going to lean more towards in the near future. We are human. We aren’t perfect. Things need to breathe and have that human touch with subtle ebb and flow. So moving forward I am perfectly happy with a slightly imperfect take as long as it has the “FEEL” element going for it.

Once a piece is finished, how important is it for you to let it lie and evaluate it later on? How much improvement and refinement do you personally allow until you're satisfied with a piece? What does this process look like in practise?

For me the demo process takes care of most of that stuff. However, once we approve and settle on a mix. I won’t listen to it for about a month. Then I will master it. Then I’ll sit on it for a few days. Then tweak it.

It is super easy to get inside your own bubble and loose perspective. Until recently I have typically recorded all our material in my home studio. And insisted someone else mixed it. Now I have someone else record AND mix it. We recently hired a colleague to record us and it was soooo much smoother. Being able to just sit back and really listen to the material as it was being recorded vs having to critically check EVERYTHING on the technical side. It allows me to be more in the moment and focus on the feel and vibe of the performance.

All the material on our S/T record I recorded. That was a financial decision - Why pay someone else to do something I can do. Now I think both Garrett and I agree - how can we afford NOT to have someone else do it. TAKE ME OUT OF THE FUCKING BUBBLE - PLEASE!!! This newer process allows me to step back and evaluate things from a different perspective. And removes me from the burden of making a lot of tedious decisions.

Basically it speeds up the process ten fold. When I am evaluating a mix now, I am not thinking … “Shit, I should have used that other microphone or preamp.” Or “Damn, that guitar take is soooo close to being perfect … it wouldn’t be that hard to mic things up again and do another take.”

Even recording a solo song is usually a collaborative process. Tell me about the importance of trust between the participants, personal relationships between musicians and engineers and the freedom to perform and try things – rather than gear, technique or “chops” - for creating a great song.

I think it’s really important to trust the people you work with. I reckon that is a luxury. But given time a musician will find engineers that they communicate well with and trust.

I had mentioned we recently worked with a colleague on some NEW new material that probably won’t be out until the fall of 2024 … but … it was a blast. At first I was a bit on edge watching our recording engineer setup mics - haha! I was thinking - OH WOW, THATS ABSOLUTELY NOT HOW I WOULD DO THAT. But I quickly reminded myself. I have mastered a fair amount of this engineers records and they always sound fantastic! He knows his gear. He knows what sounds good in this room. His process is going to be different than mine.

And if it sounds good - that’s the most important thing. And it sounds INCREDIBLE! So I kept my mouth shut, trusted him and allowed him to do his thing unfettered by the annoying client who second guesses his work every step of the way.

Trust between musicians is equally important. I think it’s kind of like being intimate with someone for the first time. Every one has their own way of dong a thing. Everyone wants to DO the right thing and make people happy. If trust and willingness to experiment and

What's your take on the role and importance of production, including mixing and mastering for you personally? In terms of what they contribute to a song, what is the balance between the composition and the arrangement (performance)?  

I am a mastering engineer by trade. And in the past worked as a house recording engineer. So …. I appreciate and put a fair amount of weight into how well a song and album is crafted on the technical side.

However, this does NOT translate into how nice the studio or gear is. A great song can be recorded on consumer grade and inexpensive equipment. Good gear and a good space is wonderful - but the most important element is the person behind the gear controlling the faders.

Composition and arrangement probably is THE most important if we are talking about a band. If it’s electronic music - there isn’t necessarily a performance except for the vocals. But arrangement is of course critical.

After finishing a piece or album and releasing something into the world, there can be a sense of emptiness. Can you relate to this – and how do you return to the state of creativity after experiencing it?

I don’t know if I feel emptiness after a release. I feel like finishing an album or group of songs is like closing a chapter which feels really good. Like I put something to rest and can now move forward.

I have been trying to get into the habit of always creating new material and not waiting for something to be released to continue the creative process. For example … we have our S/T release coming out with Learning Curve Records on Jan 12, 2024. It takes time to put something out - especially on vinyl. Then there is a Press Cycle and booking shows. Anyway, we tracked another full length this fall while we were waiting for the records to be pressed and come back. It will take time to be mixed and then mastered. And then the whole process starts over again.

We are currently writing what will be our 3rd full length. And the first hasn’t officially come out yet. When the time comes for something to be released - I want the next thing to be finished or near finished. I don’t know if we will always be able to pull that off. But it’s what we are shooting for.

I CAN definitely say that once something is OFFICIALLY out, it sounds different to me - HAHA! I don’t know why. Maybe just knowing that other people are finally experiencing it on fresh ears makes me listen to it differently.

Music is a language, but like any language, it can lead to misunderstandings. In which way has your own work – or perhaps the work of artists you like or admire - been misunderstood? How do you deal with this?

At this point in my life I start out knowing that what I put out there isn’t going to be interpreted EXACTLY the way I intended. And I intentionally write lyrics that don’t spell everything out. I like the idea of the listener getting pieces to a puzzle and deriving their own meaning from it. So I have yet to come across an instance that I interpreted as a misunderstanding for my music.

Having said all that … I do double and triple check my lyrics. I am a tall white bald cis male who likes to wear Dr. Martens and generally play aggressive music. So I take effort to make sure that my lyrics don’t have a chance of being interpreted as mysoginistic, racist, homophobic, etc …

I am an artist. I am human. These are my friends and family. So I try to do what I can to make sure the angst in my work isn’t interpreted as hate.

Creativity can reach many different corners of our lives. Do you personally feel as though writing a piece of music is inherently different from something like making a great cup of coffee? What do you express through music that you couldn't or wouldn't in more 'mundane' tasks?

Music and other forms of creativity are how I feel I can contribute to something bigger than myself. Hopefully inspire others or at least reach them on a level that shakes them out of their regular day to day monotonous functions.

If you are putting the intent behind making an absolutely amazing cup of coffee - and put your heart and soul behind it … I feel that’s similar … ephemeral unfortunately. But there is beauty in that.

But yeah, creating art and music at least pulls ME out of the monotony of my day to day functions.