Part 2

From very deep/high/loud/quiet sounds to very long/short/simple/complex compositions - are there extremes in music you feel drawn to and what response do they elicit?

I seem to prefer extremes. I don’t often do ‘middle of the road’.

Growing up I was obsessed with the fastest music I could find. Now I tend to explore much softer ambient and drone music. I like things that are new to me, I often explore cultural music from different places and go down rabbit holes into obscure music all the time.

For me, most of what I hear coming from more popular trends in music is a bit boring, or just isn’t new. That said, I am still finding older music that surprises me.

Could you describe your creative process on the basis of one of your pieces, live performances or albums that's particularly dear to you, please?

The new ZÖJ album that comes out in November, Fil O Fenjoon was an interesting and difficult album to make in some ways.

ZÖJ is very much a live act, and because we use improvisation and are so heavily affected by the environment in which we are performing, we struggled for a long time in trying to figure out how to capture the record. We toyed with the idea of having an audience present and a bunch of other things. In the end we just chose the room that we thought our instruments sounded the best, the Melbourne Recital Centre.
 
The record was recorded live in one day. We had rough ideas around how to approach it, but essentially, we just sat in the room facing each other, as we do live, and went for it. The beautiful thing about working in a long running improvising duo is that whilst everything is new, it’s also based on a strong foundation of learning and trust.

I have to admit it was a bit of a struggle at times as the pressure to walk away with a good product (when you’re making it up on the spot) was a little intense, but we’re very happy with it and feel it’s a truthful representation of what we do.

Do you conduct “experiments” or make use of scientific insights when you're making music?

As an improvising duo it’s fair to say that everything we do is an experiment. Each performance is very much like performing without a net. And, considering there is only two of us ‘holding the ball’, there is massive opportunity for things to get a bit weird.

Again, playing together for such a long time has allowed Gelareh and I to develop a tightknit musical relationship, I think even if we were to let something slip, we’re close enough to bring it back on track without anyone noticing too much.

How does the way you make music reflect the way you live your life? Can we learn lessons about life by understanding music on a deeper level?

My two biggest values in life are transparency and honesty. For me, if those two things are missing then it’s cause to be wary.

I think this is reflected in ZÖJ. There are no bells and whistles here, nothing is embellished, what you hear is what we do. This is also another reason why it was difficult to decide on how to capture Fil O Fenjoon, we wanted it to be honest, a real reflection of what the live experience is, I think we did that.
 
In terms of the music we make, there is so much that can be transferred to other aspects of life, actively listening, seeking to understand, a desire to explore and grow, being in the moment, being supportive, honest, and true to yourself. These are all philosophies that can unlock greater potential in other areas of life.

Do you feel as though writing or performing a piece of music is inherently different from something like making a great cup of coffee? What do you express through music that you couldn't or wouldn't in more 'mundane' tasks?

There’s an interesting moment that happens just after someone you know, but who doesn’t know your music, see’s you perform live. It’s as though they are seeing you for the first time.

I’ve had this happen many times, mostly there is a sense of wonder or of deeper understanding, as though they are able to frame you up more accurately. Sometimes there is a shyness, like they don’t know what to say to you because somehow, you’re a different person now.

Regardless, it’s like those values popping up again, transparency and honesty, they are seeing your soul, your true being, you are sharing your inner most self. Perhaps this is more noticeable to me as an improvising musician, I am not after all just reading from a page or performing a ‘trick’ I’m giving you a piece of myself, but it can be a powerful moment that definitely deepens connections, much more than making someone a really good coffee.
 
Every time I listen to "Albedo 0.39" by Vangelis, I choke up. But the lyrics are made up of nothing but numbers and values. Do you, too, have a song or piece of music that affects you in a way that you can't explain?

That’s an interesting thing to choke up over, I’m curious to hear more about that!
 
Throughout my life there have been different tracks that have brought on emotions, often as they’re connected to emotional moments in my own life. When my father passed away, I deliberately avoided music, I didn’t want to attach those emotions to anything.
 
The most recent thing this happened with was actually a track off our upcoming Fil O Fenjoon album. The track is called “Hangman” and it’s thematically connected to the Woman Life Freedom movement coming out of Iran. We’re about to put a clip out for that track and when we got the clip back from the editor I was bowled over. It’s just really heavy content and close to home for us, so it knocked me around a bit.

If you could make a wish for the future – what are developments in music you would like to see and hear?

I’m very curious to see what musicians do with Ai. I think there’s a lot of fear around ‘Ai will take my job’, but, in reality, it’s a person who uses Ai that will take your job. It’s a tool like anything else, so I’m really interested to see how people go about applying it.
 
I’d also like to live long enough to see the end of the capitalist approach to music that we see largely from the American music machine. It’s just so wasteful and really isn’t producing anything groundbreaking, they’re just really good at making ads.