Part 1

Name: Wayne Phoenix
Nationality: British
Occupation: Composer, producer
Current release: Wayne Phoenix's soaring wayne phoenix story the earth and sky is out via RVNG Intl.
Recomendations: I’d like to recommend two films, one a feature, the other a short. The feature is Oasis by Lee Chang Dong – in his own words, he made this film as a testimony to the true essence of love, in the hope that we don’t lose this essence as a species. The short is called Life by Artavazd Pelechian.

Artevazd Pelechian can express so many things, in such a short space of time. Godfrey Reggio referred to him as an ‘Archangel of cinema.’

If you enjoyed this Wayne Phoenix interview and would like to stay up to date with his music, visit him on Instagram.



When I listen to music, I see shapes, objects and colours. What happens in your body when you're listening? Do you listen with your eyes open or closed?

At this point in my life, I only really listen to music that touches my heart, whether my eyes are open, or closed.

What were your very first steps in music like and how would you rate the gains made through experience - can one train/learn being an artist?

I don’t believe anybody is excluded from realising that learning never stops.

My earliest years were mostly spent as an empty vessel. I remember in England during that time, there was a target based educational system that bracketed children into modules, where the main aim was the school achieving an acceptable percentage of ‘passes’ per student to secure funding for the following year. When the time came for me to choose one of these modules, I selected music in a completely haphazard way and within this spectrum, I chose to study piano, over the guitar, for no particular reason.

As it turned out, I ended up having an affinity for the piano and could play grade 8 pieces after 9 months, I was mostly self-taught, but there was a teacher who introduced me to Beethoven’s ‘Moonlight Sonata’, which was where I learned about the intricacies of harmony and counterpoint.



Deciding to take my music studies more seriously, I enrolled onto a double A level in Music in London, which was 4 full days a week in duration and gave me time to practice the piano late into the evening, after classes. The course had a heavy focus on music theory. I remember feeling disappointed with the formality of it all.

One time – during a harmony and counterpoint class, we were asked to harmonise a Baroque melody, I think it was in F major - and as a joke, I used pentatonic major 7th chords to harmonise it, with extreme dynamic ranges. It was obviously poorly graded, with a note from the teacher, which read ‘Although I feel the expressive nature of your attempts at harmonisation, there is very little I could do to recommend this work’ …

The same teacher asked me to stay behind after class the following week and presented me with a piece of paper, on which was written ‘Wayne’s Chords’ with a handwritten stave containing 3 chords, two of which were a combination of pentatonic 7ths and 4ths and one a combination of perfect 5ths. He played each of the chords on the piano and spoke to me about each one, explaining that he had developed them over the course of his life in music, and said that he was giving them to me, because he felt that I could do more with them than he had - one can only downplay the emotional effect of a moment like this one. Funnily enough – these chords are the basis of maybe 80% of the music I’ve made.

On being an empty vessel, everything of any real worth in my life, that I possess, or lay claim to, hasn’t necessarily sprung from my own being, but was given to me as a gift from another, it’s what I did with the gift that truly mattered.

According to scientific studies, we make our deepest and most incisive musical experiences between the ages of 13-16. What did music mean to you at that age and what’s changed since then?

At that age, music was something fascinating that I had no idea of how it made me feel the way it did. It even had the ability to combine emotional experiences in ways that I hadn’t experienced at the same time before, or contained shades of experience that were mysterious to me and that I was compelled to share with others.

I started to realise the distinction between the ‘charge’ of different emotions and how if combined, could create pathways that lead from one state to another.

What, would you say, are the key ideas behind your approach to music and what motivates you to create?

The older I get, the clearer it is to me that we are all effectively the same, with only small modulations. The invention of the radio brought the ability for a person to communicate with the entire world, but the language barrier stops them from addressing everyone simultaneously and the culture barrier can mean that even with translation there will be mistranslation.

Music is a key, I’m trying to unlock a door.

To quote a question by the great Bruce Duffie: When you come up with a musical idea, have you created the idea or have you discovered the idea?

I think a person both creates and discovers at the same time.

Paul Simon said “the way that I listen to my own records is not for the chords or the lyrics - my first impression is of the overall sound.” What's your own take on that and how would you define your personal sound?

I agree with this. For a long while I was very interested in underproducing tracks, which can create a sense of disappointment in a listener, only a certain type of person will ignore the disappointment and reach beyond to the music itself and this type of acceptance says a lot about the type of person they are.

I’ve heard amazing indigenous musicians do amazing things with music, which was presented in a crappy way, shabbily recorded on cassette tapes, and I wanted to recreate this type of sensation of not really striving for perfection and presenting something imperfect and incomplete, I guess it felt more human, this way.

But my feelings on this have changed now. I think about it on a project to project basis, I love the idea of calling in someone I respect, a master of sound production, someone who sees things in a totally different way to me and who is versatile and can do things I wouldn’t have dreamed of and giving them free reign. I originally wanted to relinquish control as a form of freedom, but then I realised that my concept of underproduction, was still a form of control that was ultimately limiting.

I sometimes imagine the most perfect sound, and it feels ecstatic, I’ve heard albums where the artist sculpted a phenomenal sound and I’ve been amazed, but ultimately the feeling doesn’t last, almost as if once it’s taken from the imagination and made physical, it has a sell-by-date.

This area is still a conundrum for me, but I do agree that the sound of an album, is on par with the compositions themselves.

Sound, song, and rhythm are all around us, from animal noises to the waves of the ocean. What, if any, are some of the most moving experiences you've had with these non-human-made sounds? In how far would you describe them as “musical”?

I have a special relationship to the songs of birds and find that at my most lucid, I can sing as they do, without any thought for who might be listening.

From very deep/high/loud/quiet sounds to very long/short/simple/complex compositions - are there extremes in music you feel drawn to and what response do they elicit?

I mean, there are people who have written entire treatises on bass and the drum and when you combine these, people naturally gather, this has been used in more subversive ways over time and politicised as a form of warfare for those who feel oppressed and need to relieve their emotions, but there can be no transcendence without beauty.

Now, the best form of rebellion is transcendence, and the best form of unity, is transcendence - even if quite difficult to achieve. Emotional catharsis can be achieved through resonance and beauty can lead to transcendence, euphoria and awe. A stringed instrument, played off the string is like a whisper, and can remind you of a mother singing a lullaby to her baby she cradles in her arms, when these factors come into play and when the harmony and rhythm are balanced, the effect can be disarming.

The music penetrates the listener’s mask, like an arrow to their very core, there is no escape from the feelings of vulnerability this can elicit. Nor would you want to escape, because it isn’t a weakness, but a receiving and when all the restrictions have been removed, so you can breathe again, all the above can be linked with an increase in meter and the result over time is an elevation of the being.