Part 2
Even recording a solo song is usually a collaborative process. Tell me about the importance of trust between the participants, personal relationships between musicians and engineers and the freedom to perform and try things – rather than gear, technique or “chops” - for creating a great song.
I am learning so much about this. I have collaborated with so many artists, especially since I moved to the UK. In fact, some of those collaborations became releases such as Green Drift with Expert Sleepers or my avant-garde drone metal project Diaries of Destruction.
There are different approaches and dynamics in each collaboration. Lack of trust and clear communication can result in failure of a project but sometimes things are meant to happen in a certain way. We learn from each experience.
I’ve organised a bi-monthly live electronics event series called Heart of Noise Cambridge since January. I have taken on the roles of both performer and organiser and I have learnt so many things ever since, including this sort of collaboration with others across different roles, including those who run the venue. When things get stressful, it becomes a challenge: but the moment music plays, it reminds me it is all worth it.
This example - setting up an event - I learned from Wavetable in Edinburgh (Andrew Ostler, Simon Kirby) and Tuesdays Post in London (Georgina Brett). It’s helping to create both new music and new collaborations. In yet another way there’s a balance to find, between being ‘the boss’ and allowing something to evolve through others.
What's your take on the role and importance of production, including mixing and mastering for you personally? In terms of what they contribute to a song, what is the balance between the composition and the arrangement (performance)?
Mixing and mastering are both very important for me, as this is how a piece of music reaches the form it most effectively communicates in: but they’re a means to an end, not the end in themselves. Each stage has its own parameters and gradual processes and I try to take one step at a time so that when it comes to the mastering stage, it can be smooth.
I’m not a mix engineer with a set template: instead I’m guided by what I hear, and I ask for advice where I feel I need it. I also find it helpful to work with a mastering engineer, and currently my go-to is James Edward Armstrong as he really understands the music I’m trying to make.
For an artist trying to establish themselves, I’ve found it helpful to make music that - however strange it becomes - sounds good and communicates clearly. This doesn’t mean expensive equipment: it’s about listening and understanding.
If things are produced and mixed well initially, then the later stages just flow through more easily but this also depends on the genres and instruments. Composition reflects what’s imagined while performance/arrangement is the manifestation of it, which also would be open to other people’s interpretations.
After finishing a piece or album and releasing something into the world, there can be a sense of emptiness. Can you relate to this – and how do you return to the state of creativity after experiencing it?
I have most recently worked in a cross genres way. This is the case with my work as Diaries of Destruction with Jordan Muscatello in the album DoD II. We created something as a drone metal journey, but which is harmonically richer than that might suggest because of our different backgrounds in jazz and electronic music composition. I’m excited for it to make its way into the world.
Finding the mental energy to finish something intense can be tiring - and I can relate to the tiring feeling, especially when there are other things to do as well. There is an almost untranslatable Turkish word ‘üşeniyorum’, meaning having no energy for doing something, but it’s a deeper feeling than that. Sometimes I feel this, more than emptiness.
I believe that each work is a different journey. Sometimes they connect to one another or they open up to new paths. That means I sometimes need to regain perspective. There is a lot of spontaneity and improvisation in what I am doing so it happens naturally in the end.
The state of creativity is inspired by many elements, rather than me going into my desk and saying, “OK, I’ll work on this now”. But I think it’s helpful anyway. As noted bass player Colin Edwin says: “creativity is a muscle” - and if so, rest is as much needed as exercise.
[Read our Colin Edwin interview]
I’ve been already working on my next solo record and multiple other projects but usually the process evolves naturally and opens up itself.
Music is a language, but like any language, it can lead to misunderstandings. In which way has your own work – or perhaps the work of artists you like or admire - been misunderstood? How do you deal with this?
I am learning to accept people as they are. The moment you want to control something that you cannot change, then you are stuck. I basically don’t deal with it, or I deal with it by dealing with myself - that’s my responsibility.
People will always have their own interpretation of things and that can sometimes even be beautiful, surprisingly, although it can certainly feel negative when I have enthusiasm for an approach that they don’t like.
For example, a filmmaker I worked with for a time described my music as ‘too haunting’ for a short documentary. I tried to follow his brief and initially found his comment frustrating: but then that’s his interpretation. I like haunting music: can it be ‘too haunting’? Well it was for them - but not for me.
The lesson for me here is to even do more of it! That might be why the DoD II album of my Diaries of Destruction project with Jordan Muscatello is being released on Halloween 2024, with ghostly horses on the cover. None more haunting! Haunt it up!
A long time ago, I remember being influenced easily by what others said. I started to feel like a puppet. Especially when I used to live in Turkey I would get lots of unsolicited opinions which included misunderstandings. I was the only woman in this Sonic Arts Foundations course years ago when I was studying. My colleagues would tell me my mix sounds too complex when they gave me feedback: but it’s for me to decide whether to change it or not. And even if on one level they’re right, if I can’t hear it yet: they’re not.
Once I stopped trying to change people’s opinions or being so defensive, I found more peace.
