Part 2

From very deep/high/loud/quiet sounds to very long/short/simple/complex compositions - are there extremes in music you feel drawn to and what response do they elicit?

I do tend to be drawn to minimalism. I think that’s been something I’ve been attracted to since I’ve been recording and putting out music.

The power in minimalism and lean recordings that have just the right amount of elements to make them work. That could be music by people like Low or a track like “Easy Lee” by Ricardo Villalobos where it’s just a kick drum and a vocoded vocal for like 6 minutes but it holds your attention for the whole time. Love that!



Minimal tracks can often have a lot of space and silence in them and, for me anyway, that sort of negative space gives more power to the instrumentation that is there.

Prince is another great example, something like “Sign O’ The Times,” the absolute core of that is a simple drum machine beat and then his amazing vocal. Not much else to it but if you hear that on a PA it absolutely slays.



That said, I wouldn’t necessarily describe the music that Iain and I make together as minimal. I think Iain by his own admission likes music with layers and complexity and I think that’s been a really interesting thing where our two slightly opposite leanings come together in this project.

Could you describe your creative process on the basis of one of your pieces, live performances or albums that’s particularly dear to you, please?

The process we’ve used to make all of our music is like this: One of us will start a little ‘seed’ idea. Could be as simple as an 8 bar loop of drums, maybe a bassline, maybe a synth part or vocal, often very bare but something that hints at possibilities. Then we’ll send that to the other person in our shared Dropbox.

Then the other will add their new elements on top, maybe expand the arrangement a bit, make it longer or shorter, do whatever they feel is exciting and send it back. We’ll bounce these ideas back and forth as long as it takes until we both feel like it’s finished.

For some music it’s been as simple as one or two passes each and done and others it’s been hugely drawn out and many, many passes back and forth erasing, editing, adding, subtracting, changing things. There’s really no knowing at the beginning how long a track will take to complete. Some have been finished in a day or two and some have seen us sitting on them for 6-7 months trying to figure out how to get them over the finish line.

The track I was thinking about today was “Back There” from our new EP, SEEDS II. That started with a little idea I sent to Iain. Pretty minimal, the synth pads were there, maybe the bassline notes and the vocal. Iain went away and worked on it adding extra layers, some amazing drum programming and then really accenting and leaning into making the track sound as dreamlike as possible.

When he sent it back it was one of those rare occasions where it just felt pretty much whole and finished and I got full goosebumps from the emotion in the music. It was a really special moment and the first time I’d had such a visceral experience from something we’d worked on together.

Do you conduct “experiments” or make use of scientific insights when you’re making music?

Hmm, I suppose in terms of trying to keep things interesting for myself I am often trying to think of new ways of doing things and seeing what sort of results they lead too. Experimenting with different plug in chains, trying hardware gear to do a job that would be much quicker to do on the computer but that might lead to an unusual result just by nature of it being more laborious and hands-on … Nothing too wild though.

Lately I have been trying to start seed ideas with just one piece of gear. So maybe just a drum machine and then see how far that gets me, then the next seed idea use a different bit of gear. And it’ll often lead to pleasingly different results and help stave off the feeling of stale repetition or doing the same thing every time just because it worked before.

I can’t think of any specific scientific insights we’ve implemented to be honest! The deepest we go on that is probably just making sure all the bass layers are in correct phase with one another!

How does the way you make music reflect the way you live your life? Can we learn lessons about life by understanding music on a deeper level?

I had to go away, make dinner and think about this one. What a question!

I think as I’ve gotten older I’ve learned to accept life and all of its ups and downs, not force it to conform to how I want it to be like I did when I was younger and just be ok with whatever it is. Whatever happens next in my story, good or bad, just accept that it is how it is.

And I guess that’s the parallel with making music. When I’m writing I don’t try and force the music to be a specific thing when I’m making it, especially not in the early embryonic stages of an idea. I try and just let the idea come out and be what it wants to be not what I want it to be. Accepting whatever it is that comes out, I find that’s much more exciting and has lead to much more interesting music than when I would really try and force my intentions on something.

Can we learn lessons about life by understanding music on a deeper level? I think the more we fall in love with music the easier it becomes for us to be more in touch with our intuitions about it. We’ll know instinctively if we love it or find something about it intriguing or if it has potential to grow on us. Or the opposite, if we really don’t care for it.

It’s a gut response that’s pre-thought and I think being in touch with our intuitions in a pre-thought way can really help us move through life a little bit easier. We’ll know when situations or relationships are right for us or wrong, we’ll have a similar gut level response that we can learn to trust.

I don’t know, I’m just pondering all of this. What a great question.

Do you feel as though writing or performing a piece of music is inherently different from something like making a great cup of coffee? What do you express through music that you couldn’t or wouldn’t in more mundane tasks?

Brian Eno defined art as the things that humans don’t need to do but do anyway. I kind of loved that.

[Read our Brian Eno feature]

So I suppose making a great cup of coffee, like creating a piece of music is a creative thing in its own quiet way.

But with music, it’s a long form experience, the writing and playing of it, it can be something that lasts a whole working day. And so I have all that time to let whatever the idea, or feeling that’s inside of me that wants to come out, come out. I never know what that feeling or emotion is as, like I say, it’s just something that I sit down and let happen without judging it or considering it or trying to alter or steer it too much.

I’m sure that’s probably only possible because I give it the hours for that to occur and perhaps the more mundane, every day tasks are too fleeting to really be able to express myself in them like that.

Every time I listen to Albedo 0.39 by Vangelis, I choke up. But the lyrics are made up of nothing but numbers and values. Do you, too, have a song or piece of music that affects you in a way that you can’t explain?

I didn’t know this Vangelis piece, thanks for introducing me to it. It is indeed lovely.



There are probably countless pieces of music that could choke me up if they came on out of the blue.

Today, I’m thinking of “I Only Have Eyes For You” by The Flamingos. It has special significance for me and is such a beautiful and dreamlike piece of music from period of time I wasn’t alive to experience but I get swept away in it every time I hear it. It’s romantic and sounds underwater and astral all at the same time. Gorgeous.



If you could make a wish for the future – what are developments in music you would like to see and hear?

I would wish that some kind of balance could be found so that young artists could be supported more with the music they make. That streaming income specifically could see an overhaul and a fairer split with the artists.

The way things are just now, it’s never been more difficult to make a living in music. The danger of that is that it pushes out the less privileged kids who perhaps aren’t fortunate enough to have family financial support.

Music will be worse off if it ends up become something only the fortunate can afford to do and important voices, people who could make life changing records for millions, might be pushed out of the culture because they simply can’t afford to put food on the table by relying solely on their art.