Name: Johanna Summer
Nationality: German
Occupation: Pianist, composer, improviser
Current Release: Johanna Summer's new album Dialoge, featuring Kit Armstrong, Claire Huangci, Danae Dörken, and Igor Levit, is out via ACT. 

[Read our Claire Huangci interview]

If you enjoyed this Johanna Summer interview and would like to stay up to date with her music and upcoming live dates, visit her official homepage. She is also on Instagram, and Facebook. 



Most of us grow up seeing composition and improvisation as separate things … what was this like for you? Were there any formative moments where you first saw the two converge?

They were separate to me for a very long time as well.

I grew up with classical piano lessons and improvisation was something disconnected from it. I created little pieces just for fun, knowing in the back of my head, that I rather had to do my homework for my next lesson. It wasn’t until I discovered jazz music, that the combination of the two really started to make sense to me.

In a way, an improvised solo is a composition in real time – inheriting many of the parameters we use for existing works. And I realised that a great interpretation of composed music sounds the most authentic and meaningful, when it has a spontaneity to it, as if it was created in that very moment.

We know that many famous classical composers were excellent improvisers and wrote their pieces to naturally accommodate input by the performer. Do you think that in some respects, it is actually historically incorrect to just play “what's on the paper?”

When learning new pieces I usually try to stick as close to the notation in the beginning as possible, to really try to understand what the music is telling me. After that, adding personal nuances in dynamic and phrasing seems not only legit, but necessary to me.

 And of course, it differs from style to style. Playing only the written notes in a baroque piece, without any embellishments or alterations in a repeated passage, is a no-go for sure.

When and how did you start improvising over classical compositions? What is satisfying about it for you?

When getting in touch with free improvisation in a course led by free jazz legend Günther Baby Sommer at my conservatory in Dresden, a whole new world started to unfold in my musical understanding. I had to push my limits, stepping out of my comfort zone again and again. But I was rewarded with new perspectives on the music that I already had in my repertoire.

It seemed absolutely logical to me to not only improvise on jazz standards, but also on classical repertoire and try to grasp its many layers of instrumentation, context and meaning.

What is the piece trying to tell me and how can I position myself on this? That’s the question I’m always asking myself.

Schumann seems to be a good starting point for your improvisations. Why is that, do you think?

First and foremost it was music I encountered at an early point in my life. I played many of the pieces from "Kinderszenen“ and "Album für die Jugend“ and was fascinated how much storytelling Schumann could deliver in those two or three minutes of music.

Paired with a vivid title the compositions really sparked my imagination. This playful approach helped me to develop my own views on what improvisation might be for me.

Tell me about that evening in Lucerne with Igor Levit, where you and Igor brought the idea to a larger audience.

It was a completely spontaneous idea and Igor just told me right before the concert what he was about to play. He chose Schumann‘s Waldszenen op. 82 and although I knew the work, I didn’t prepare anything beforehand, of course.



After each miniature he left a pause for an improvisation of mine. I responded to what I’ve just heard and it felt completely natural and easy. On that evening, the idea of DIALOGE was born.

I read the critical review mentioned in the press release about the Lucerne performance. I completely disagree with its premise, but it raises an interesting question in a way: Do you think that art is most powerful when it responds to the chaotic nature of the world around us through the balancing act of improvisation - or the feeling of control and stability found in composition?

That’s a difficult one and I’m not even sure if this is exactly what the reviewer meant – I think he generally disagreed with any other approach to "his“ classical music than a reproductive one.

But to be honest: each and everyone has their own ways of expressing what’s important to them. I will never be a composer in the sense that I’ll spend most of my time in front of staff paper, that’s just not my style.

I can be at my most authentic when I’m able to execute in the same moment I’m creating.

How far do you allow yourself to go when improvising over a classical piece, how closely do you need to stick to the original for it to still qualify as “a Schumann improv?”

A red line would be crossed in the moment one would make fun of a piece, out of a selfish motivation. I cautiously take care that this will not happen in my playing, as I am very sensitive to that. Also, when listening to others, you just hear it when someone tries to elevate themselves over the music.

But a clear point when I’m leaving a certain Schumann piece in my improv is often hard to determine. If the spirit of the piece is still perceptible (in whatever shape), I’m still playing Schumann’s composition.

How did Dialoge grow out of the Lucerne performance and how did you decide on some of the cornerstones?

I had a bootleg of the concert with Igor and showed it to our label manager Andreas Brandis. He found it to be convincing too, so we tried to imagine what this could look like with other pianists and even other instrumentalists in general.

For the album we wanted to keep it purely piano focused, but in the meantime, many inspiring live duos with string players started to emerge, for example one with violinist Franziska Hölscher.

On the album I wanted Dialoge to cover a diverse and broad spectrum of music, so I asked players who represent exactly that.

Just out of curiosity: Was it ever an option to turn the tables and have you perform the “originals” and the classical pianists do the improvisations?

No, never! But that does give me some ideas… :)

The album also made me think about the concept of the leader which is an often discussed topic in jazz. What's your take on this in general? On Dialoge, fascinatingly, in a way, your collaborators are actually leading and you're following …

Yes, I don’t view myself as a leader in this setting.

But the tracks on the album are only a few excerpts of the amount of music that was actually recorded. I could sense the energy flowing back and forth between us players and noticed that what I was playing also influenced my guest’s playing during their performance.

Sometimes they would even change the running order of their pieces, reacting directly to what they’ve heard.

What did the recording session for Dialoge concretely look like? Were your improvs, for example, all one takes? Were they edited from longer passages? What do you still remember about those two days in Berlin?

I mostly remember how much I enjoyed sitting right next to my guests and listening to their incredible playing! It’s something indescribable to witness this physical and emotional energy from these world-class players.

I wanted to be kept in the dark regarding their repertoire choices, so I would even leave the room when they warmed up on their piano. The possibility of hearing a piece with fresh ears was so important to me, that I wanted to preserve it for the very moment of the recording.

I don't know if this was actually a consideration, but in a way, these are not so much dialogues but three-way conversations: Between composer, performer and improviser; between “original”, “interpretation” and “improvisation.” How do all of these inputs factor into your personal response, would you say?

Interesting point. One can definitely interpret the album this way, but that’s not something I completely thought through in the beginning. It probably plays an unconscious role though.

In my ideal world, an improvisation is as carefully crafted and interpreted as a composition. In my practice I try to get better in combining these skills. But when performing I cannot actively think of them, because it would make me self-conscious. I have to forget everything, as well-worn as it sounds.

It’s about listening and reacting, a very intuitive act and it works with unknown pieces and known ones alike.  

Are there pieces that are more exciting to improvise over than others? If so, what makes a particular original more or less interesting for you?

I think it’s completely natural to find some pieces easier to approach than others.

There were definitely some moments in the studio when I thought: phew, how can I match this energy, this expression that has just been delivered? Or you notice while playing, that you’re not really in the "zone“ right now. Then I would ask my guest to repeat the piece half an hour later and I’d have another try. And due to the sheer amount of recorded music, there were many pairings that didn’t make it onto the album.

In general I would say that a composition is appealing to me, when there’s something a bit unusual about it: in the periodicity of bars, in certain voicings (the way the notes are stacked) or a surprising turn in the melody. Then something clicks.

To me, one of the key features of Dialoge isn't even the concept, but the sense of camaraderie with other pianists, something which seems to often go unmentioned in the world of classical music in particular. Can you talk about the importance of friendship, community and creative exchange for you?

I don’t have the same insights into the classical community as I do have into the jazz scene, but I can definitely sense, that there is more of a lone wolf mentality going on.

In my study days, we’d often jam spontaneously or practice together and I’m pretty sure this is not so much of a thing in the classical department. This whole conception of: "you’re not allowed to have a second teacher besides me“ is something unthinkable in jazz, where you usually try to play with as many different musicians as possible, to keep learning and getting inspired.

This socialization stayed with me.

That review about the Lucerne gig recommended someone should give you the opportunity either play a full, classical piano concert or give you the commission to compose an original work. Is that something you'd be interested in? What would be the challenge in it?

Actually I‘ve been approached just recently with the idea to compose original music for another instrument. It’s something I’ve been struggling with for the last years, because I’ve been bound to the piano so much and I "think“ music from there.

I have quite a lot of sketches for piano pieces flying around on my desk and I will play them when the time is ripe. But there HAS to be a certain space for improvisation in them! I guess otherwise I would be missing something. :)