Published
Part 2
Tell me about the process behind I Hate the Sun, please.
ROBBY: There wasn’t necessarily a clear picture of what the album would be and that meant it could be anything. I think we ended up someplace special.
MICHAEL: It was very fast and in the moment. We worked for three days in a row, from 10am-6am. I think we only slept from 6am-10am. Everyone switched roles throughout the process too.
Sometimes you’d be directing the arrangement, sometimes popping up only at the end or beginning, sometimes even sitting out entirely because the song was already enough. My own contributions were a mix of live playing, or using micro loops and effects to make samples of my guitar more dynamic and expressive. Or just straight up NOT playing.
NILS: I Hate the Sun was a very cathartic album. At its heart, it is about processing the death or loss of monoliths. All of us in particular are processing recently tragic transformations happening here in the US, and we channeled those emotions into our creative work.
For me personally, I had a lot of field recordings on hand that I knew I wanted to use. So I set up my synths and bluetooth receiver to pipe straight through my pedal board, and I just crafted on my looper until I had something interesting that I felt matched the character of what everyone else was making in the moment.
It was a lot of watching everyone else until I got that “aha! THIS moment is perfect for that one thing I’ve been holding on to” and just working at that idea until something good came out.
How does the creative process typically get started and what is your sense of ownership like as part of the songwriting process?
ROBBY: I would say that there is less of a formal songwriting process and more of a discussion of themes and sharing sonic palettes with one another. The actual writing tends to get done in the moment. That could change, but I think that is where we are at right now.
ANDY: Like most creative endeavors, I feel like this one has a 50/50 mix of art creating itself and work creating art. Sometimes it is just in front of us and all we have to do is hit record. Other times it takes sweat and perseverance to come away with a thing that sounds effortless.
There was a moment while recording the title track “I Hate The Sun,” I recall Robby and I tried for about two hours to force something usable from a sample of us harmonizing. It was one of those moments where you have to take a step back and say, “let’s pause, take a break, then sit back down and try again with fresh ears.”
So we put it aside for a while, and when we came back, the struggle was transformed; the way we had to use this sample became obvious. So through that sort of temperance and praxis we were able to create something we liked.
MICHAEL: That was one instance of Nils and I knowing when to stay back, too. I think we just smoked cigars on the stern and waited for them to find what they were hearing.
ANDY: Right. For me, that speaks to a balance of raw inspiration, work ethic, and restraint in how we operate; ultimately, all art demands this.
What tend to be the best songs in your opinion – those where you had a lot in common as a band or those where you had more differences? What happens when another musician take you outside of your comfort zone?
MICHAEL: I think the latter situation is best - where differences meld. “Dawn Song (for Jane Goodall)” comes to mind.
That song is Pink Floyd chordal influence from me, beautiful modular drones from Andy and Robby, and then right at the end, out of nowhere, Nils plays this sample of him and a mate blowing into glass bottles.
I really wasn’t sure about that at first. Now it’s one of my fave parts of the record, and some listeners have told me it is theirs too.
What are your thoughts on the need for compromise vs standing by one's convictions? How did you resolve potential disagreements?
MICHAEL: What makes it hard is, music has almost no objective qualities apart from duration and volume. When you’re making a song, certain things make you feel good, bad, or disinterested, and you can’t really know why.
Our closeness as friends makes it much easier to have those conversations, but ultimately I think we are guided by the question “How does this make us feel?”
ANDY: Communication is key, of course. I’ve been in bands with significant amounts of conflict and others where everything was good vibes all the time.
Ultimately if you work with anyone long enough in a serious way, you’re going to need to discuss things openly and work through the minutia, the annoyances, as well as the big decisions, and find agreement, if not perfect harmony.
With EBT, thankfully, this has been easy. I would shout out our close collaborator Andrew Mörner here, who I think inspires all of us to work as a unit through his immense passion, and his organization and administrative skillset.
NILS: The way I view it, everyone in the band has “creative needs” that must be fulfilled to maintain the group passion of the project. So my part in looking at a disagreement is thinking first of identifying the creative fundamentals to the idea being discussed, and focus on how best to bring that need to life.
Sometimes the answer is simply technical, sometimes it's adjusting arrangement. Sometimes it's realizing that the idea is better served in a different song or project.
Do any of the band's members also have solo projects? If so, how do these feeds into the band's creative process?
ANDY: I’ve released music as Andrew Vine for the better part of a decade now, but more recently I’ve been composing ambient and electronic work under the project name Renamer; I’ll have a solo LP release in 2027.
I alluded to being a writer too. I write under the pen name A.G. Valentine. My first book, The Apoptotic Era, was published last year and I’m still writing every day. At least speaking for myself, longform prose, and specifically the tonal cohesion it requires across a singular project, is a discipline with strong influence over the way I operate in music, and within EBT.
ROBBY: I compose for contemporary dance choreography. Its soundscape tends to be influenced a lot by contemporary classical, ambient, IDM, and even some techno. I think some of the rhythmic elements end up finding their way into my modular sequences.
You can definitely hear that on “Two Faced Candle.”
MICHAEL: I mentioned my indie-rock band Delving earlier. You can find all my music on my Subvert page, it’s like an artist-owned bandcamp.
My current solo project is called Adderall for the Birds. It is inspired by the pioneers of ambient and minimalist music as well as more contemporary artists like Stars of the Lid, Macie Stewart, and Jeremiah Chiu.
[Read our Stars of the Lid and Winged Victory for the Sullen's Adam Wiltzie interview]
Robby & I also have an electronic side-project called TV You. We’ve got a few singles out, and a few more getting mixed right now. Check it out!
Our manager/media guy Andrew Mörner and I recently finished our first soundtrack commission for an upcoming documentary called Really Good! Fresh Jerky.
It’s a heartwarming story about an Argentine immigrant named Gus and his effort to preserve his family jerky business, which has become a beloved roadside attraction in our home state of California.
Have you worked with outside contributors - from sessions musicians via producers to other songwriters? How did this change, improve or challenge the established dynamic and how do you look back on that?
NILS: The only person we’ve brought in in that capacity so far would be Andrew Mörner.
Andrew has radically changed things for the better. Working with him has enhanced the entire story that we’re trying to tell by bringing the art, video, and general media to life in a way that none of us had the experience to do.
We had an idea that it would be fun to involve a fake conspiracy theory in our album release, it’s a long story but it’s related to our album. And Andrew immediately was like, “Hey, what if we just made a whole message board website to house this entire concept?” And so he made ihatethesun.net.
It was incredible. He brought the entire structure to life, and we wrote the story through thread posts, and this small idea suddenly became something very big and cool.
Everything has been like that with him where I feel he pushes us to think bigger, and brings the creative toolbox and expertise to help make it happen. He is our fifth EBT, and I’m very excited to work with him on the next album we have planned.
Most bands eventually break up. What makes you stay together? What are essentials for a successful band?
MICHAEL: I think if you have more than one vegetarian it can’t work.
ROBBY: Yeah, I think this isn’t really something people should worry about. That isn’t to say don’t try to make things work, but you could do nothing wrong and just grow apart as time goes on. Not all band breakups are bad either. Just have good communication.
NILS: Well, it’s really as simple as we all want to make this kind of stuff, and we all really like doing it with each other. In my view, the thesis of I Hate The Sun is that all things will die — but if you keep creating, you are renewed.
And so, I have this approach that I just want to keep creating with this group for as long as I can, and not be too attached to us being locked into a moment or a time. I see us transforming and renewing as we continue to create, and I want to keep doing that until I die.
